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Thread: Why journey into the Cloud?

  1. #1
    Lianja Development Team barrymavin's Avatar
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    Why journey into the Cloud?

    The acceleration of cloud migrations is obvious to everyone now who doesn't have their head buried in the sand.

    Lianja was architected in such a way as to provide a means for domain experts (people that know a lot about their business but are not developers), as well as professional developers with expertise in VFP, JavaScript, PHP and/or Python the tools and technology to help them "Journey into the Cloud".

    Read this article and see how the cloud is rapidly changing the face of IT.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtmark...iness/?ss=tech

    With the most recent release of Lianja 1.3 and the forthcoming 1.4 we are getting closer and closer to realizing the Lianja vision of providing you all with the means to "Journey into the Cloud" with a minimum learning curve.

    If you look back over the Lianja development roadmap and the steady steering of the product development I hope you now realize why things are done the way they are in Lianja.
    Last edited by barrymavin; 2015-02-05 at 10:17.
    Principal developer of Lianja, Recital and other products

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  2. #2
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    I think a lot of developers aimed at less-than-enterprise markets. The need for a Cloud approach is just as urgent there.

    Consider CRM: an SMB that buys a server-based CRM that is secure and resilient will pay many times more than a cloud-based offering (of which there are many). The "desktop" apps your customers use will be, are being, replaced by cloud apps as we speak.

    And the momentum for the SMB market is just beginning. Quickbooks et al., TurboTax et al. are selling less desktop and more cloud, and that will only increase. Chromebooks are taking over the consumer notebook market (hard to believe -- but OTOH, we use Google Apps for Business for all my email, because it's the most secure and most searchable email available, and we do internal documentation on the Google Apps Sites we create for each project. Projects and Support tickets are managed in OnTimeNow -- do we really want to manage servers that are key to our business? Which is to say, do we really want to invest in state-of-the-art routers and switches, with failover to another datacenter, so that our business can have 99.9% availability?

    Change is happening not only in computing. The best estimates for autonomous vehicles taking over the market are looking at 2025 for general availability. Already, the 2015 GM high-end cars automate 90% of driving. A 3-disease testing iPhone accessory that plugs into an iPhone and gives results in 15-minutes costs $34 to make, today, replacing lab equipment that costs 10's of thousands of dollars. The world is changing before our eyes: we need to look up from our desktop and starting creating applications for the future, because the future is here. The list goes on.

    Hank

  3. #3
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    I think I will address the questions most of us are afraid to ask.

    Lets say I have just finished my super Lianja application with international marketing potential. Advertising done. Standard sections used all over... checkboxes for Desktop, Web, Mobile and Tablet - all checked... Best practice is followed... all runs well and fast in Lianja development and test environment...

    And what now?
    Where to go? I realize now that I know nothing really practical about cloud from the point of developer.
    I have installation package. Will I contact some cloud providers to install it? Who they are?
    How it is calculated as a service?
    Do I maybe need to contact my web provider where my company's web site is now? Can they help?
    Do they allow that I install Lianja Cloud Server there?
    Does Lianja company provide some cloud service?
    Can the cloud be somehow private? On what hardware? What to say to my customers about options - who has even less clue? What they expect?

    b) If I made application only Web enabled, what that means for my next steps? Where and how can I get to "http:...." for my app in the browser?
    Where to go? Whom to contact?

    c) Same thing with mobile.
    Contact Amazon app store? Google app store? Apple store?
    What if I can not get be paid there because I do not live in USA?
    Can Lianja company help and mediate for some commission? We are not here to make small free games and apps as a hobby.
    We used to pleased our customers and their wishes making complex software which deals with lot of data.

    My point is: we all know how to sell our desktop (LAN) applications, how to install on servers and deal with server administrators, we know VPN and Remote desktop...
    But most of us never have an application in web browser, on tablet (browser too?) or on mobile phone.
    What will be our next practical steps to monetize our investment (time and money) on new devices?
    I mean in practical terms? Who has such experience to share?
    Maybe silly questions but someone need to ask.
    Last edited by josipradnik; 2015-02-05 at 15:51.

  4. #4
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    Hi Josip,

    Yes, there's a lot to learn.

    Lianja has listed in the pricing schedule the Hosted edition. I would expect that to be a great use to those who don't want to manage instances on Azure or AWS (the two best places for Lianja apps, IMHO, because of their management tools, with Azure leading the way at this point).

    Many places will design a hosted failover with virtual instances for you, also. I expect, however, that the Lianja hosted edition (its in the pricing list) will be of most interest to those who don't have a devops person to handle it. If your business grows bigger, you can then see whether having a devops person to handle cloud management is a good investment, vs. the Lianja hosted edition.

    How you sell the application will typically be "by the seat" on a monthly/yearly basis. You can also offer, as an ISV, to install the LCS on their server, warning them that if their business depends on this application, it must be resilient and secure. Give them a long, accurate checklist of items which must be handled in order to be resilient and secure, so that they start worrying (as they should) about their present circumstance. They will ask if you can do all that: tell the truth and tell them no (it takes a lot of expertise to set up fibre channel, etc.).

    How to work with the Amazon and Apple stores is on their websites, all laid out.

    Don't even think about your web provider: that'a a totally different business than Azsure, AWS and Google are in.

    So yes, there's a bit of learning involved. But the information is all available on the web.

    BTW: to play around on your own, assuming you have an LCS license (or are an ISV with unlimited LCS licenses for your code), you can put CentOS on a VM or Hyper-v on your machine and install the LCS there. Once you get comfortable with that, you can put up a test/demo server for $10/mo (2GB ram) at BudgetVM -- with ssd drives (under the VPS instance). It's a cheap way to put up a demo for sales purposes.

    I remember when I got my first personal computer (ca 1982): a 6502-machine from Milwaukee Computers than ran UCSD Pascal, using an ADDs 3a, I think it was, terminal. I had to call up the manufacturer and ask how to put a floppy disk in. <s> I had only used "real" computers before then. I get a lot of that same feeling looking at managing cloud instances. <s>

    Hank

  5. #5
    Lianja Development Team barrymavin's Avatar
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    Based on the discussion that has ensued since my post "Why journey into the Cloud?" let's recap on what Lianja is and what has been stated since the start of development.

    Firstly we must always remember the 5 pillars of Lianja to remind ourselves that Lianja is "not just an IDE", it is a platform.

    • Lianja App Builder
    • Lianja SQL Server
    • Lianja Cloud Server
    • Lianja App Center
    • Lianja Hosted Cloud

    As we state in the Lianja Overview http://www.lianja.com/overview/lianja-overview

    "The Lianja Hosted Cloud is currently under development and is not yet publicly available. When the beta is available we will notify a selection of beta testers and provide them with a membership subscription so that they can experience Lianja Hosted Cloud Apps first hand.

    The Lianja App Center is the focal point for accessing Lianja Hosted Cloud Apps securely over the Internet. Lianja Hosted Cloud Apps are paid for on a monthly or annual subscription basis. Compared to traditional "on-premise" systems, with their associated high capital, renewal and ongoing IT management costs, hosted Lianja Cloud Apps are much cheaper in both the short and longer term. Using the Lianja App Builder you can develop and test custom Apps offline, then publish them into the Lianja Hosted Cloud sharing your Apps and their associated data securely with others in your company, business or Team.

    The Lianja Hosted Cloud will handle all membership subscriptions and a revenue sharing scheme will provide ISVs with a percentage of the revenue gained from the monthly subscriptions of Lianja Apps that they have developed. Further details on this will be published as we get closer to final release."

    In the most recent release of Lianja v1.3 we have included SFTP upload support in the App Builder which will be used to publish your Apps into the Lianja Hosted Cloud.

    So let's summarize the process of developing and deploying Cloud Web Apps:

    1. Develop your Web Apps visually in the Lianja App Builder using best practices
    2. Test them in "Web App View" and "Live Preview" on your development machine
    3. Upload the App and its database to the cloud where a Lianja Cloud Server is running (or Lianja Hosted Cloud when available -- see below)
    4. Purchase a domain name and point a domain at the URL. There are many places you can purchase a domain name. Network Solutions etc
    5. Now you have cloud business apps that you can make available to your customers, company, business or team just by providing them with the URL and a username/password.

    What's coming to help you monetize your apps in the cloud:

    1. We are currently building out the Lianja Hosted Cloud using best-of-breed technologies. This will not be hosted on our premises. It will be hosted on Amazon AWS or Azure.
    2. As an ISV you will be provided with a membership subscription to the Lianja Hosted Cloud. This will provide you with a unique hostname e.g. a7e5279bc5d8.lianjacloud.com, and an admin username and a password.
    3. When you login through SSH or upload files using SFTP you will be inside a "tenancy", *your* unique tenancy.
    4. You can then register a domain name for your company e.g. johndoe.com and setup the address records to point to a7e5279bc5d8.lianjacloud.com
    5. Anyone who goes to your domain will automatically enter a custom home page for your membership subscription which you can customize and provide a means to login, then after logging in, users will be presented with the apps that they have access to in the Lianja App Center specific to your tenancy.
    6. Clicking on a tile in the Lianja App Center will run the App
    7. We are looking into how your customers subscribe to use your apps (on your landing page) and how you get paid for that through a revenue share. Rather than put the cart before the horse we will cover this once the Lianja Hosted Cloud is ready for public consumption.
    8. Our objective is to make it easy for you to develop then deploy your apps in the cloud and then share the apps and data with your company, business or team.
    9. As we make Lianja Hosted Cloud available we will be adjusting the subscription prices for CPU / Memory / Disk usage / etc in line with the currently published prices at that time.

    This is the Lianja "mantra". Develop. Deploy. Share. It's not just marketing jargon, it describes the process of how to "Journey into the Cloud" with Lianja.

    Where will Lianja Hosted Cloud be?

    It will be hosted on Amazon AWS or Microsoft azure. Details will be available when we announce it.

    And finally.

    The Cloud offers ISVs with a new way to monetize their development efforts. It is a different model to desktop app development, packaging, marketing and selling.

    And don't forget, if you do not want to deploy your apps in the Lianja Hosted Cloud nobody is forcing you to do so. You can always build out your own.

    The advantage of the Lianja Hosted Cloud is that we do it all for you and you are just a few clicks away from making your Business Web Apps available.

    In a future post I will describe how Cloud-centric Mobile Apps are developed, tested, built and submitted to the Apple App store and Google Play. This is what we are currently working on and will make available in Lianja v2.
    Last edited by barrymavin; 2015-03-16 at 03:08.
    Principal developer of Lianja, Recital and other products

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  6. #6
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    Thank you Barry for your explanations. I am glad we touched this topic in practical aspect.
    Yes, I usually have mishearing of "...Deploy, Share" part as a marketing jargon not involving us. Now I understand you are serious about that part too.

    Josip

  7. #7
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    There is of course plenty of scope for hosted browser-based applications in plenty of use cases, and even more scope for just hosting existing desktop applications in the cloud. There remain plenty of use cases where having something in the cloud makes no sense, too.

    Also we won't be seeing widespread adoption of autonomous cars in my or your lifetimes. Seriously. Maybe in LA or somewhere.

  8. #8
    Lianja Development Team barrymavin's Avatar
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    Indeed.

    This article I wrote a while back is maybe worth reading again.
    http://www.lianja.com/resources/lianja-in-a-nutshell
    Principal developer of Lianja, Recital and other products

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  9. #9
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    Hi Alan,

    betting against Elon Musk (while doubling the timeframe, which I did) has not proven to be a good bet.

    I got the other guy's name wrong (mixed him up with a stock market guy): http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...e-zack-kanter/

    I plan to be working 15 years from now (probably on the cusp of retirement, which will consist of working part-time), so with any luck, whether it occurs in my life time will be discovered.

    Hank

  10. #10
    Lianja Development Team barrymavin's Avatar
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    If you are not familiar with Amazon WorkSpaces these are worth looking at too for centralized Lianja desktop Apps hosted in the cloud.

    http://aws.amazon.com/workspaces/

    EDIT: Seems this only provides single user login so can be used for development but not deployment.

    Last edited by barrymavin; 2015-02-08 at 01:05.
    Principal developer of Lianja, Recital and other products

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